Linear Light Source II

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  • #13038
    JRVJRV
    Participant

    Something’s wrong for me with replies on the web board so I’m having to start a new thread. Sorry for that; have notified Cadsoft and hopefully will be resolved soon.

    Here’s my down-and-dirty “solution” to the strip lighting problem described in this threads recent predecessor.

    I left the horizontal up- and down-lighting surfaces at 100% luminance, and set the adjacent, vertical surfaces at 50% luminance, as though they’re kinda-sorta reflecting light. In much the same way I’d have done with shading film in the pre-CAD days!

    This is incredibly inaccurate, of course, and NOTHING gets illuminated except the ersatz illumination of the adjacent vertical surfaces. But it avoids calculating radiosity of a bazillion little LEDs during rendering, and lets me get on with the design work. Absent a built-in solution, it’s close enough.

    Attachments:
    #13418
    JRVJRV
    Participant

    This really is a problem.

    Same model, but different room, fixture, and application. I just went through EVERY linear LED light fixture on 3DWarehouse. Several could work for appearance, but NONE, after import to ProArchitect 15, included anything on the Lights tab in Properties. I don’t have a way to know if that’s a limitation in ProArchitect or the SketchUp models. Either way, though, it means I can’t produce a semi-realistic model in ProArchitect.

    So importing from 3DWarehouse is NOT an option. Maybe from somewhere else. Most lighting manufacturers support 3DS, but Env does not. Regardless, it should not take this much effort to do something so trivial.

    I’m looking for something that would approximate this crude, cheap fixture in a model–

    https://www.amazon.com/Crystal-Aluminum-Channel-Extrusion-Installation/dp/B07Z4QNHSR/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=5TOIe&pf_rd_p=49ff6d7e-521c-4ccb-9f0a-35346bfc72eb&pf_rd_r=9EQBRYHY4ZJB6ZDBV8R9&pd_rd_r=075fc62d-67d1-49b7-b4ae-26ac4717f0b0&pd_rd_wg=yhCIT&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mr_hp_d

    –combined with a 6mm LED strip light like this–

    Amazon.com: Tunable White LED Strip Lights with RF Remote, 600 LEDs Vanity Lights 3000K-6500K White Lights for Mirrors, TVs, Under The Cabinets, Desks, 16.4ft LED Tape Light for Home, Kitchen, Christmas and More: Home Improvement

    This, unlike the previous application, does actually need to realistically light the room in the model, and that means one light source in the middle of the 1M/3ft strip…

    Will.

    Not.

    Work.

    Beyond that, there are zero LED lights among the available “Light Sources”. In 2010, when I last used ProArchitect, that was probably OK(-ish). In 2020, it’s not. (I know I can create my own. But it should be in the Catalog by now.)

    #13419
    Jkzimmjkzimm
    Participant

    I will work on it some more but the use of Luminance will give the LED affect of the light. The problem is it doesn’t project light. So you can set the ceiling to be slightly reflective to get a little feeling for real light.

    I do not understand the option in Realtime 3D > Options , where is states ,’ Use Texture as Light Source’. I am hoping that it holds the solution but HELP has nothing on it under 3D Realtime.

     

    Attachments:
    #13422
    JRVJRV
    Participant

    Jack, thanks for the generous offer! My thread started as a “how do I do this” but is now mostly directed at Cadsoft.

    There are hacks and workarounds for this, as you point out, some of which I’ve now used. But none are accurate, and all are fussy.

    The fundamental issue for me is that the product has NO support for LED lighting technology, widely used today, and likely to be used exclusively in the near future. This, by virtue of inherent superiority to incandescent and fluorescent and falling prices, but also by legislation. That needs to be top of mind for Cadsoft, and probably can’t wait for v16.

    #13591
    JRVJRV
    Participant

    Pro Architect 15 c2.

    Don’t know if this is a deficiency in the product or a user error. If the latter, please educate me! If the former, Cadsoft please add this to your bug list.

    I have a 5:12 sloped Ceiling Surface, against which I have elevated “Fluorescent Ceiling Office Fixture” lights from the Catalog, with Size Properties squished into something approximating the LED strip lighting I’d prefer to select, if it was available.

    I tilted the fixtures to 23 degrees on the Y-axis to match the slope of the roof (to the nearest integer). Yet the light from the fixtures remains horizontal (note the shadows).

    So I set the Up/Down, and then the Left/Right, “Light Orientation” to 23 degrees. Light was still cast horizontally. (I’m not sure at this point what these parametrics actually do. I found nothing about Light Orientation in the Help file.) (I do know the spinner controls for them don’t work; you have to type the entry. But need for typing is a minor complaint at this point.)

    It’s surprisingly distracting in rendered views. Is there a way to have these fixtures cast light on the adjacent wall at 5:12/22.6 degrees instead of 0:12?

    (P.S. Note that in the Section view, I had to click on the ceiling to select it for the screenshot, because it inexplicitly disappears across most of its length. So look closely for the light green line.)

    (P.P.S. The baby-sh*t yellow brick will get painted a color TBD, or maybe tiled. But it’s only slightly more gruesome in the pic than in real life! And it’s all over the exterior, too. Don’t judge me, I didn’t choose it.)

    (P.P.P.S. Cadsoft: When I add a ceiling fixture, I expect it to elevate and orient itself to the ceiling on which it’s placed. I shouldn’t have to fuss with calculating elevations…that’s the software’s job.) (And if you zoom in on the section, you’ll see the dumb human using the software still doesn’t have it right…!)

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by JRVJRV.
    Attachments:
    #13597
    SDSSDS
    Participant

    (P.P.S. The baby-sh*t yellow brick will get painted a color TBD, or maybe tiled. But it’s only slightly more gruesome in the pic than in real life! And it’s all over the exterior, too. Don’t judge me, I didn’t choose it.)

    posting for levity, thanks for the laugh!

    (hope I got the quote format right!) 🙂

    #13600
    JRVJRV
    Participant

    And for even more levity, try to make sense out of the light patterns cast on the side walls in 3D RealView.

    Attachments:
    #13602
    SDSSDS
    Participant

    oh wow…yea I get that sometimes but that’s pretty funky alright, always thought it was from sunlight but I can see you have it set to night

    #13607
    Conweconwe
    Participant

    JRV,

    Usually that comes from a reflection from somewhere that is throwing a bug light.

    So what i start doing is, i erase the shiny objects that are in room usually you can find it that way and sometimes it’s the light itself. But make sure you turn your auto-save off before you start doing that. that way you can undo it and only erase what needs to be erased then.

    Conrad

    #13875
    JRVJRV
    Participant

    From levity to hilarity.

    Fortunately, I never have reproduced the sparkly walls in the prior rendering. Sparkles or no, I consider this nighttime rendering unsalvageable.

    I took Conrad’s advice to try deleting possibly-reflecting elements. The ceiling fan was “Black (Shiny)”. (In real life, the fan is glossy black plastic.) “Black (Shiny)’s” Specular setting? All of 2%. Not exactly a mirror finish.

    Regardless, that was a big part of the disco-ball reflections. There’s clearly more, but I stopped there.

    Daylight to the rescue! It overpowered (many) of the reflections.

    So I’m duh-uh-uh-uh-uhn with rendering this room.

    At least as important to this failed rendering is that the office fluorescent lights squished into wanna-be LED strip lights don’t actually cast any light! The attached rendering is what you see when brightness and gamma are set to 1.0.

    Looks like a problem with the Fluorescent Office Fixture element in the Catalog–unless squishing them somehow prevents them from casting light.

    In this image, they’re set to 2000% x 32w fluorescent in each of 8 fixtures. Even without the 2000% multiplier, 8 x 32w of fluorescent light should be near-blinding.

    (The dining room behind the fireplace is lit by 2 chandeliers you can’t see in the rendering, not by the (6) 32w x 2000% strip lights.)

    Yeah, I’m giving up on this nightime rendering.

    Onward.

    Attachments:
    #13882
    Conweconwe
    Participant

    JRV,

    Just a tip when the fan is the one creating a glare. and throwing off crazy patterns on the walls around it. Painting the black part to a walnut finish usually takes care of it. I found out that wood if you can use it is best option. You can also lower the texture intensity of the walnut  to make it darker.

    Conrad

    #13883
    SDSSDS
    Participant

    I just went through this…could not get the room lit properly to save my life.

    Daytime settings cast the pixellated walls as in your first attachment
    Nighttime settings were much too dark using realistic lighting

    So I set 3 normal florescent ceiling fixtures in the room…elevated to about mid-height between floor/ceiling…floating in space.

    Then I went into their properties and turned off all 3d display…so now they’re there, but invisible, except for their light.

    It lit the room enough, at night, to adequately illuminate the room, but not cast those damned pixellated finishes and got the shot rendered.

    #13897
    JRVJRV
    Participant

    Conrad, the problem with walnut is that the fan is gloss black. This is a renovation. The fan  exists, will not be replaced, and this is the closest approximation to it I can find in the catalog, albeit with an Appearance change.

    It’s not going to change to walnut or anything else. The furniture in the room is also black, except for back-painted glass coffee- and end-tables commissioned by an artist. The fan is appropriate to the space–if not to Cadsoft’s lighting calculations.

    Your solution is helpful if we merely want to solve the disco-ball effect, but useless for showing how the room might actually appear, which is really the point of a rendering!

    Not your fault, Conrad; I appreciate the suggestion. No, it’s 100% Cadsoft’s fault.

    It’s ridiculous that even in daylight (attachment) I can still see a few reflections off this 2% specular fan in the same (artificial light-) created locations as in night renderings (with the fan in place).

    But daylight will be as close as I get to reality.

    Another odd irony is that I don’t actually see any reflections on the glossy black fan itself, day or night!

    Attachments:
    #13899
    JRVJRV
    Participant

    SDS, the invisible light fixture solution has been around since the Atlantis forum! (Also sometimes suggested as a replacement for daylight.)

    Considered it here, but rejected it because (A) I’m out of patience with rendering this room, and (B) I suspect the ceiling fan would cast bizarre shadows on the ceiling. Multiple invisible fixtures would help reduce that, but fluorescents in Envisioneer are not linear light sources; they are point light sources in a linear container, and therefore cast fairly distinct shadows.

    As with Conrad’s reply, I appreciate the suggestion, SDS. But this is a problem Cadsoft needs to solve. It needs to “Just Work”.

    If I put 256w of fluorescent tubes into a small, 225sf room with light walls and ceiling, (forgetting, for the moment, that what I really want is LED strip lights) (let alone setting the fluorescents to 2000% brightness)–it should be BRIGHT!

    [Edit] Also just realized there should be at least one reflection of the light fixtures in the window glass in the night rendering.

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by JRVJRV.
    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by JRVJRV.
    #13907
    SDSSDS
    Participant

    I hear Chief Architect is doing neat stuff with lighting…

    Their forum sure is active…maybe that is where everyone here went?

    The cost of the software is comparable…and I hear Chief Architect actually works…

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